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General Islamic Discussions => General Discussion => Topic started by: AishaZaynap on July 19, 2017, 12:28:58 PM

Title: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: AishaZaynap on July 19, 2017, 12:28:58 PM
Im Köylü Güzeli from Twitter(im originally AishaZaynap)

We were discussing with respected brother Hasan Journey on twitter and i want to know how it is possible to derieve full benefit without bayah? Same cure does not work for all. Everyone is different. If someone does not say about their condition then how will they be cured from their spiritual sicknesses along with how would they able to progress towards Allah Ta'ala? Jazakallahu Khayr
Title: Re: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: abuhajira on July 19, 2017, 12:57:52 PM
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Im Köylü Güzeli from Twitter(im originally AishaZaynap)

We were discussing with respected brother Hasan Journey on twitter and i want to know how it is possible to derieve full benefit without bayah? Same cure does not work for all. Everyone is different. If someone does not say about their condition then how will they be cured from their spiritual sicknesses along with how would they able to progress towards Allah Ta'ala? Jazakallahu Khayr

Bismillahi Ta'ala,

Walaikum Assalam,

Alhamdulillah, I like this medium of discussion much better than limited characters of twitter.

Your primary question is whether complete full benefit can be attained without Bayah or not?
Answer : Yes and no.

Ba'yah is formal promise at the hand of the Sheikh
Suhbat awliyaa is keeping contact with the Mashayekh, and in tazkiya more so with one Sheikh.

The primary core benefits of tazkiya can be attained through spiritual mentor without a bayah. Remember that something which is even more important and significant than Bayah is Ta'lluq. Contact with the spiritual mentor.

Under normal circumstances (males) this is via meetings, messages, kitabat (writing), phone etc. The frequency of contact will make the mentor more informed of the condition of the saalik. Just as the case of any tabeeb or a doctor. For this contact it is not necessary that the saalik has a "nisbati/bayah" with the sheikh. He just needs to be well intuned of the sheikh and be continious in his contact.

The same ta'luq is slightly different for women. Since they cannot be in khalwah, they must have guardian's permission and accompany while the contact takes place. The husband, brother or father should always be informed of the happening of the correspondence. There is no need of privacy between a female saalik and the sheikh. If the husband is a cause of some issue, then another guardian/overseer must be present (although this will be very detrimental to the husband's relationship).

Nonethess, when the purpose is tazkiya of nafs, not many husband have problems. And as long as they are well aware of the correspondence, they help in the endeavour.

Coming back to our point of contention. With this ta'luq, most of the core tazkiya nafs can take place. Formal Bayah will not be necessary.

However, this should not reduce the significance of bayah as well. Imagine a Hadeeth scholar who has only taken asaneed (chains) of his hadeeth from books. There will be a major break between him and the link to Rasulullah salalahu alayhi wasallam. This poses strong disconnection of Nisbah in the field.

The same happens for Silsila in Sulook as well. If you have done your tazkiya, but have not received the spiritual connection through mashayekh, you will be void of immense spirituality of nisbah. Yes, just as any other uloom you wil cherish the rahma of Allah in your tazkiya, but the specific boons and bounties of spirituality through nisbah will be missing.

Bayah plays a significant role in tazkiya as well. A catalyst towards will and strength for lack of better word.
Title: Re: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: Zahid Hasan on July 19, 2017, 10:17:06 PM
Assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuhu

Mufti sahab, Glad to see you writing such a long post. This is a delicate topic which could explode like a bomb if this forum was sunniforum or muftisays. Anyway, you mentioned part of an ayah "Kuunu ma'as saadiqeen" in a tweet reply. Could you please elaborate this? Suhbah of Ahlullaah is such necessary we don't hold that significance in our mind. Jazakallaahu khayra.
Title: Re: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: abuhajira on July 20, 2017, 07:32:00 AM
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Assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuhu

Mufti sahab, Glad to see you writing such a long post. This is a delicate topic which could explode like a bomb if this forum was sunniforum or muftisays. Anyway, you mentioned part of an ayah "Kuunu ma'as saadiqeen" in a tweet reply. Could you please elaborate this? Suhbah of Ahlullaah is such necessary we don't hold that significance in our mind. Jazakallaahu khayra.

Walaikum Assalam Warahmatullah,

Yes indeed. It is a direct command of Allah to attach oneself to the pious people. There are other ahadeeth which talk about the effect of the company and environment. A person sitting in a dump will not be able to retain focus simply because his environment will keep distracting him. Similarly, company of the pious, aside from the spiritual warmth has psychological effects.

Sulaha' and pious tend to opt for everything cautious, hence they are careful in their mannerism. When this starts to rub off onto the saalikeen, and tulabaa', the effects yield a somber, focused and strong individual. Conviction sets in. As they say in urdu, "Kharboozay ko dekh kar Kharbooza rang badalta hai" i.e. A melon looks at another to change its colour.

A person could be bay't with a sheikh for years, and yet not sit in company of him. He may not benefit from his bay't as much as a simple saalik who merely sits in the majlis of the Sheikh on frequent basis. He gets charged again and again from the aura around the sheikh. When Sahaba were envious of Sayiduna Abu Huraira r.a about knowing a hadeeth on every matter, Sayiduna Umar r.a would say to let him be, for he spent all his time in company of Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wasallam, while we went to bazaars doing business.

Even if you are far from some ahl Allah, keep contact via any medium you can. You will actually feel the effect with every reponse from him. It will help strengthen and motivate your desire to stay upright even in the face of difficulties.
Title: Re: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: LoveDurood on July 21, 2017, 08:27:55 AM
There is a malfuz of Hakeem ul Ummah ra I believe in Kamalaat e Ashrafiyya in which he stresses islahi taluq first before bayt. He says bayt is not child's play.
Title: Re: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: abuhajira on July 21, 2017, 09:39:58 AM
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There is a malfuz of Hakeem ul Ummah ra I believe in Kamalaat e Ashrafiyya in which he stresses islahi taluq first before bayt. He says bayt is not child's play.

Yes indeed. Ta'lluq takes effort from the side of the saalik. It highlights whether the talab and desire is genuine or not. Whether the willingness is coupled with following or mere desire.
Title: Re: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: LoveDurood on July 21, 2017, 08:13:42 PM
If we can see tafsir Maariful Quran for Surah Tawbah ayat 119 maybe we can get further info.

What is the meaning of "suhbah" and in this context especially?
Title: Re: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: Acacia on July 22, 2017, 07:41:34 AM
Inshaallah I can contribute by sharing 9:119 here.

Suhbah in this context is: being in the company of the truthful and actively striving to emulate them (who in turn emulated the sadiqeen before them, going back to Rasulullah, sallallahu alayhi wa sallem) in order to achieve taqwa.

(http://i67.tinypic.com/2mowc9f.jpg)
Title: Re: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: LoveDurood on February 11, 2018, 04:25:09 PM
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Im Köylü Güzeli from Twitter(im originally AishaZaynap)

We were discussing with respected brother Hasan Journey on twitter and i want to know how it is possible to derieve full benefit without bayah? Same cure does not work for all. Everyone is different. If someone does not say about their condition then how will they be cured from their spiritual sicknesses along with how would they able to progress towards Allah Ta'ala? Jazakallahu Khayr

Abundant reading of salaat wa salaam alan Nabi salallaho alayhi wa sallam (durood) is a way to achieve islah and tazkiya e nafs and is on its own enough to reach qurb e ilahi especially when it is intentionally read with the niyyat for islah of nafs.
Title: Re: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: LoveDurood on February 11, 2018, 04:29:38 PM
See this from Uswai Rasul e Akram salallaho alayhi wa sallam:
Title: Re: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: LoveDurood on February 11, 2018, 04:31:13 PM
Taken from Zaad us Saeed of Hakeem ul Ummah Moulana Thanvi ra:
Title: Re: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: LoveDurood on February 11, 2018, 04:32:36 PM
The hadith that Moulana Thanvi ra narrated in the previous post:
Title: Re: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: LoveDurood on February 11, 2018, 04:39:55 PM
There is another part to the citation from Uswai Rasul e Akram salallaho alayhi wa sallam, the English translators usually do not translate it I dont know why. But in it the author specifically writes the 2 highest stages of spiritual ascension and says that it is attained from the barkat of Durood e Shareef.

Not to mention, the buzrugs have been noted to say: Whatever we attained we got from the barkat of durood e shareef.
Title: Re: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: LoveDurood on February 11, 2018, 04:43:09 PM
Such a person, one who gets islah via abundant durood reading, wont be able to do islah of other people (cant be shaikh to people) because he wont be a sahib e fun (one who has learned the science of tasawwuf) (there is a quote like this from Shaikhul Hadith Moulana Zakariyya ra).

My note: But why aim for others islah anyways? If my islah is done in my lifetime it is good enough for me.
Title: Re: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: LoveDurood on February 11, 2018, 05:18:33 PM
The translation of the Urdu related to the high stations of spirituality is:

(page 256 of Uswai e Rasul e Akram salallaho alayhi wa sallam)

Ahl e Sulook (people of sulook) due to their overly keen interest and attachment to salaat wa salaam alan Nabi salallaho alayhi wa sallam were able to attain the Fath e Azeem...
Title: Re: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: LoveDurood on February 11, 2018, 05:28:49 PM
(1) You can access nearly every talk of almost any shaikh in the world via internet. These days a shaikh gives a talk in India and it is uploaded on youtube within 24 hours. They all say the same thing but in different words.

(2) Read abundant durood e shareef daily.

(3) For fatwa there are many online darul ifta you can ask QA to, this site might even have online QA with a mufti. All you need is 1 mufti you dont need every opinion ever from every mufti in the world.
Title: Re: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: LoveDurood on February 11, 2018, 08:09:06 PM
I think it would be good to know the purpose of bayah: it is for mental focus clarity stability attention. The idea behind bayah is that if a mureed gives bayt to 1 shaikh then he will take all his lessons and do all of his QA from that 1 shaikh and this will prevent his mind from wandering to different ideas and methods thus giving him mental clarity focus attention mental stability. The 2nd reason for bayah is to fulfill a sunnah, various Sahaba ra gave bayah to the Holy Prophet salallaho alayhi wa sallam for various things like one sahabi pledged that he will always be a well-wisher to Muslims etc.

Bayah is for focus clarity calmness attention stable mental state - which is the mental environment needed for tasawwuf. (This is also among the goals why mashaikh have said to limit ones speech and to limit the mixing one does with other people, the more a person speaks the more one mixes with others the more the mind gets clouded and busy in different ideas.)

Any shaghal (spiritual exercise) in tasawwuf, any azkar (litany) of a silsilah requires a certain degree of mental calmness stability focus attention clarity etc. Without a calm mind one cannot go far in this area. Ask any of the old real people in tasawwuf and they will tell you this.

This is why tasawwuf has always been done usually in isolated private places i.e. the khanqah. And the khanqah had very strict rules about mixing with khanqah attendees and talking, no mixing no talking except necessary. The khanqah usually had private rooms within the khanqah for attendees. That is the ideal situation. You cant do ideal tasawwuf in the middle of the bazaar, with people reading newspapers and on phones and such.

What we have of tasawwuf today is for the most part an idea of how and what it is really done, the ideal place where tasawwuf can be learned experienced practiced is something else which is quite foreign to us still.

This is why I humbly say salaat wa salaam should be stressed even more in a situation like this. There are way to many distractions in our lives, we cannot go off to an isloated khanqah for months at a time to get the real ideal tasawwuf practices. You have to be off for months at a time where all your only focus is the a'maal in the khanqah, you cant be worrying about other stuff at all. You have to completely give up the world and go there dedicated to the khanqah for 4-5-6 months at a time to really grasp the practices. This is not possible in todays age illa mashaAllah.

People who want to be doctors go to medical school, there is a certain environment kept there and certain practices are done, teaching and learning theory and then lab and then clinical work. The students are surrounded by others in the same goal and they are always talking and doing the same similar things, usually living in the same area, and this goes on for a few years and thats how doctors are made. Ideal tasawwuf requires the same thing as well. How can we achieve ideal results without the ideal environment?
Title: Re: How do we derieve full benefit without bayah
Post by: bint e aisha on February 19, 2018, 09:52:24 AM
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Taken from Zaad us Saeed of Hakeem ul Ummah Moulana Thanvi ra:

SubhanAllah never read this before! For people like me its an easy way to attain tazkiyah. JazakAllah for sharing.